[SemajChaos]

I think it is natural. Because I don't control the time, place, or cause of my boners.
And also it's sorta been proven but that doesn't matter to closed minded opinion.

What're your thoughts?

[zanta78]

You can teach yourself to control your boners, so I concur.

Also, What about Bi-sexuals? I'm sure some can control what they want.

This post has been edited by zanta78: 30 December 2011 - 05:51 AM

[tobyaG]

with enough money you can change anyone

[S13driftAZ]

Both, duh.

Homosexuality for the most part stems from severe trauma as a child, most notably sexual abuse. Hardly ever is it by choice, or by genetics... it all stems from the modern human dysfunctional family.

[SemajChaos]

I can't agree with either of those responses.

For Zanta's, I could never *choose* who my body wants. I can repress it's reactions but I can't tell it who to react to.

For Side, none of my gay friends were abused lol. They all say that theyve felt it all of their lives but they were too scared of their parents to come out of the closet. Why wouldnt they just choose to be straight and not deal with that reality?

[Muramasa]

My friend taught himself to get boners from cookies so im going to say its a choice

This post has been edited by Muramasa: 30 December 2011 - 09:32 PM

[HiddenStar]

I think it's a subconcious choice though, not genetics, but it's still nothing you can control. Like how some people find different hair colour, which would go against natural instincts.

[S13driftAZ]

SemajChaos, on 30 December 2011 - 11:13 AM, said:

For Side, none of my gay friends were abused lol. They all say that theyve felt it all of their lives but they were too scared of their parents to come out of the closet. Why wouldnt they just choose to be straight and not deal with that reality?

They may say that they havent, but its very likely they dont even remember the abuse. And I doubt if you asked someone if they were abused, they're going to come straight out with it and say "yeah, my uncle raped me when I was 3." Repressing memories is a defense mechanism we have, so we can take ourselves out of extremely traumatic situations.

This post has been edited by S13driftAZ: 30 December 2011 - 11:18 PM

[Hguols]

S13driftAZ, on 30 December 2011 - 11:38 AM, said:

Both, duh.

Homosexuality for the most part stems from severe trauma as a child, most notably sexual abuse. Hardly ever is it by choice, or by genetics... it all stems from the modern human dysfunctional family.

S13driftAZ, on 30 December 2011 - 05:17 PM, said:

They may say that they havent, but its very likely they dont even remember the abuse. And I doubt if you asked someone if they were abused, they're going to come straight out with it and say "yeah, my uncle raped me when I was 3." Repressing memories is a defense mechanism we have, so we can take ourselves out of extremely traumatic situations.

I disagree with that wholeheartedly.

There are many people who have been sexually abused throughout childhood and aren't the slightest bit homosexual....
...and there are people who are gay who had very a very conservative and enriched upbringing.

I'm not going to say that doesn't happen at all, but the "for the most part" claim and implying "they don't remember it but it happened" if they deny sexual trauma.... utter poppycock.

"For the most part", a homosexual/bisexual doesn't choose their sexuality any more than you choose yours. Period.

This post has been edited by Hguols: 30 December 2011 - 11:44 PM

[S13driftAZ]

Do your own research before telling me im talking out my ass. I came to voice what I know about the subject, and I'm certainly not going to argue about it.

What I will tell you is this, I have an aunt who was severely abused by her father. Sexually, physically, emotionally, you name it. At 39 years of age she became very ill, and began to remember things from when she was a child. Up until then she had a great relationship with my grandfather. Now its a different story, she hates his guts. This is my semi personal experience with repressed memories.

This post has been edited by S13driftAZ: 31 December 2011 - 04:06 AM

[Hguols]

My ex's sister Pam was 10 years old and her dad and 5 drinking buddies took turns on her one night. Knocked her up too.
She hated her father and his friends for that, until they died.

The thing is though. Pam is married to a man. She's never been with women and doesn't want to be with them.
________________

My good friend Glen (with one "n") was sexually abused by his father growing up. He tried to like women and have girlfriends, but "it just didn't seem right".
He's been with his partner for about 9 years now.
________________

My good friend Leroy, grew up in a great household. Never had any sort of abuse growing up. Was even in the army for a while. Happiest guy you'll ever meet.
He's beyond gay though. ....like a gay diva actually, but he's a loveable character, that's for sure.
________________

My point is, it can effect someone's sexual development, but not always.
I agree with you that it can happen, but is that still their choice?

The only place I disagree with you is the "most of the time" presentation of sexual trauma = homosexuality. That's wrong.
There's only 1 out of 5 of my gay friends that had any sort of trauma like that.

Some gays (like my friend Glen) claim that they're gay because of they're sexual trauma. Just because someone claims it doesn't mean that's actually the case.
I mean, come on - I have guys come into work seriously claiming to be able to lift extreme weights and they're built like Howard Stern.

I could be wrong, and I'd be willing to admit that. For the time being, I still disagree that homosexuality is from sexual trauma.
...and even if it was, I'd disagree that it was their choice to be that way.

This post has been edited by Hguols: 31 December 2011 - 03:24 PM

[Mad Hatter]

As I so thoughtfully explained in the shoutbox eons ago, I figure that homosexuality is genetic. More specifically, a little genetic defect (no offense) that mixes up the signals on which gender that person should have feelings for, both sexually and romantically. Or in the case of bisexuals, eliminates gender from the equation entirely.

What really piques my interest is all the cases I hear of girls "experimenting" with other girls. This to me seems to imply that for women the gender barriers in regards to sexuality are less rigid (no pun intended) and more flexible (pun possibly intended) than they are in most men.

[SemajChaos]

I agree with Hguols and Hatter

My mom was sexually abused for years when she was but 6, till she was around 11. Her mom knew, never did shit about it. Her mom's boyfriend was the one doing it. And she may hate men as a gender, but she is most certainly not lesbian.

My friend, who's name I am not at liberty to say, let's call her Anne, was also sexually abused. She is 17 now, and she didn't realize it was sexual abuse until recently. Not because she was repressing it, but because she was only 3 and 4 when it happened, and didn't know what her stepdad was doing. She is hetero.

My only gay friend to have been abused was lesbian before it happened. She knew she and accepted that she "liked" other girls about a year before her mom abused her. Yes, her mom abused her *because* of her sexuality. Why would she choose the pain?

The others would tell me if they did. You guys on this forum can't tell, and probably don't believe me (which does not matter to me at all really) but I'm the go to guy for my friends. Any friends I have that are homosexual who weren't before I met them came out of the closet to me. I'm the one that people tell their secrets to. That's why I would know Side. But hey, I can't read minds, so it doesn't matter.


______________
But aside from abuse, my question has to do with it being a choice or not. Abuse would not be a choice.

[S13driftAZ]

SemajChaos, on 31 December 2011 - 12:00 PM, said:

But aside from abuse, my question has to do with it being a choice or not. Abuse would not be a choice.

I'll just say one more thing and then im gone, in saying all this I'm not implying that %100 percent of the time abuse causes homosexuality. I just strongly believe that it plays a major part in that community of individuals.

/continue thread

I do believe it is more genetic than choice, because it isnt a choice that some straight guys are more attracted to beautiful, ditsy women over homely, intelligent ones.

This post has been edited by S13driftAZ: 31 December 2011 - 11:38 PM

[Hguols]

S13driftAZ, on 31 December 2011 - 05:35 PM, said:

I'll just say one more thing and then im gone, in saying all this I'm not implying that %100 percent of the time abuse causes homosexuality. I just strongly believe that it plays a major part in that community of individuals.

/continue thread

I disagree with the fact that it plays a major part in that community.
I would say trauma and homosexuality are linked 10% of the time, but that's just a guess.

Look chief, I'm not out to prove you wrong. In fact, if you can back up your claim, I'll gladly say I'm wrong.
So far, what you're saying is little more than a Tu Quoque....

Person X is a homosexual because of sexual trauma,
therefore,
sexual trauma causes homosexuality in most people.

I researched the web, and I don't see anything that supports this "most of the time" that you're referring to.

S13driftAZ, on 31 December 2011 - 05:35 PM, said:

I do believe it is more genetic than choice, because it isnt a choice that some straight guys are more attracted to beautiful, ditsy women over homely, intelligent ones.

I believe I DO NOT have a choice when it comes to attraction. However, I do have a choice on voicing or acting on my attraction.

I think my wife is beautiful, but its just a fact of life that there are people I find to be physically more beautiful than her.
Let me be more specific. There are coworkers at my job and friends that I have that I find to be more physically appealing than my wife.
(Just so you know I'm not talking magazines here.)

I believe that I cannot help this. ...but once again, I don't have (or even want) to act on that.

Besides, my wife is so smart and she's also SANE, something I haven't seen in many women I've dated, which is VERY attractive.

I went out with a few women in the past for their looks, but couldn't get past the fact that they were an emotional train wreck and/or extremely indecisive. (they didn't know what the hell they wanted)

...and when I experienced that, it actually made the person ugly to me.

I hope that makes sense.

This post has been edited by Hguols: 01 January 2012 - 04:16 PM

[SemajChaos]

S13driftAZ, on 31 December 2011 - 03:35 PM, said:

I'll just say one more thing and then im gone, in saying all this I'm not implying that %100 percent of the time abuse causes homosexuality. I just strongly believe that it plays a major part in that community of individuals.

/continue thread

I do believe it is more genetic than choice, because it isnt a choice that some straight guys are more attracted to beautiful, ditsy women over homely, intelligent ones.

Your avatar threw me off. Totally thought it was Hguols.

Hguols, on 01 January 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

I believe I DO NOT have a choice when it comes to attraction. However, I do have a choice on voicing or acting on my attraction.

Couldn't have said that better myself. Quoted.

[Basukesu]

In my experience with friends who are gay, I would say that it seems most of them just are that way. I have only ever run into one person who chose homosexuality but quickly turned his back on it later and just was his regular hetero-self.

While abuse may lead some to homosexuality I doubt highly it is the sole cause in cases where that happens. I agree with the others on this thread, in that it seems to be genetic.

If you think about the choice component for a moment, it actually makes the least sense. It would imply that all homosexuals are social contrarians 100% by CHOICE. Breaking down both cultural inculcation and social indoctrination along the way at every turn. While not 0% the probability of that being true is so remote that you are literally left having to discount it as a probable cause/reasoning for why some people are homosexual. Further attestation to this observation is the process of self-acceptance that many homosexuals seem to go through. If it were choice they would not be going through that problem in any amount of intensity since choosing it would imply comfort with the choice. Thus the struggle for self-acceptance would be an aberration within the whole "choice" mindset and one that proponents of choice cannot explain without resorting to a social norm which again, leads us back to square one.

The biggest question for me is why spend all this time worrying about the orientation of others? Until Judeo-Christian norms took hold in large parts of the world the phenomenon of homosexuality was no phenomenon at all, it was both derided and praised throughout much of antiquity, in equal amounts with heterosexuality. And last I checked the only people whose performance is affected (work/socially) by the presence of a homosexual are the straight people around them. (this comes from 5 years of HR experience in a large firm).